228. Dicunt autem quidam quod isti poetae et philosophi, et praecipue Plato, non sic intellexerunt secundum quod sonat secundum superficiem verborum; sed suam sapientiam volebant quibusdam fabulis et aenigmaticis locutionibus occultare; et quod Aristotelis consuetudo fuit in pluribus non obiicere contra intellectum eorum, qui erat sanus, sed contra verba eorum, ne aliquis ex tali modo loquendi errorem incurreret, sicut dicit Simplicius in commento. Alexander tamen voluit quod Plato et alii antiqui philosophi hoc intellexerunt quod verba eorum exterius sonant; et sic Aristoteles non solum contra verba, sed contra intellectum eorum conatus est argumentari. Quidquid autem horum sit, non est nobis multum curandum: quia studium philosophiae non est ad hoc quod sciatur quid homines senserint, sed qualiter se habeat veritas rerum. 228. Now, some claim that these poets and philosophers, and especially Plato, did not understand these matters in the way their words sound on the surface, but wished to conceal their wisdom under certain fables and enigmatic statements. Moreover, they claim that Aristotle's custom in many cases was not to object against their understanding, which was sound, but against their words, lest anyone should fall into error on account of their way of speaking. So says Simplicius in his Commentary. But Alexander held that Plato and the other early philosophers understood the matter just as the words sound literally, and that Aristotle undertook to argue not only against their words but against their understanding as well. Whichever of these may be the case, it is of little concern to us, because the study of philosophy aims not at knowing what men feel, but at what is the truth of things. 229. Deinde cum dicit: factum esse quidem etc., improbat praedictas positiones: 229. Then, at now to assert [165], he refutes these opinions: et primo primam; First, the first one; secundo tertiam, ibi: vicissim autem etc.; secondly, the third one, at to say that the universe alternately 234; tertio secundam, ibi: totaliter autem factum etc. (secunda enim opinio minus habet rationis). thirdly, the second one, at if the world is believed to be one 235 (for the second has less of an argument). Circa primum duo facit: About the first he does two things: primo improbat positionem; first, he refutes the opinion; secundo excludit quandam excusationem, ibi: auxilium autem et cetera. secondly, he rejects an excusing of it, at some of those 231. Circa primum ponit duas rationes. With respect to the first he presents two arguments. Circa quarum primam dicit quod impossibile est mundum esse factum vel genitum ex quodam principio temporis, et quod postmodum in sempiternum duret. Cum enim aliqua volumus sumere rationabiliter, idest probabiliter absque demonstratione, talia oportet ponere quae videmus esse vera in omnibus aut in multis: hoc enim est de ratione probabilis. Sed in proposito accidit contrarium, quia omnia quae generantur, videmus corrumpi. Non ergo est ponendum quod mundus sit generatus, et quod sit incorruptibilis. In the first of which he says that it is impossible for the world to have been made or generated from a certain beginning of time and then afterwards to endure forever. For when we want to assume something reasonably, i.e., probably, without a demonstration, we must posit what we observe to be true in all or in many cases, for this is the very nature of the probable. But in this case the contrary happens, because all things that are generated we see to corrupt. Therefore one should not lay down that the world is generated and indestructible. 230. Secundam rationem ponit ibi: adhuc autem et cetera. 230. He gives the second argument at (3) further, this second capacity [166]. Et inducit primo quoddam principium: et dicit quod, si aliquid est quod non habet in se potentiam quae sit principium eius quod est sic et aliter se habere, sed impossibile est quod aliter se habuerit prius per omnia saecula, impossibile est quod talis res transmutetur. Et hoc probat ducendo ad impossibile. Quia si talis res transmutaretur, erit quando transmutatur aliqua causa faciens eam transmutari, scilicet sua potentia ad transmutationem: quae si prius fuisset, possibile erat illam rem aliter se habere, quae tamen ponebatur impossibile aliter se habere. Si autem prius non habuit potentiam ad hoc quod aliter se haberet, et postea habet eam, hoc ipsum est transmutari illam rem: et sic etiam antequam haberet potentiam transmutandi, erat potens transmutari, ad hoc scilicet quod acciperet potentiam transmutandi. And first he states a principle and says that if a thing is such that it does not have within itself a potency which is a principle of its being thus and otherwise, but it is impossible for it to have been otherwise throughout all preceding ages, then such a thing cannot be transmuted. This he proves by leading to an impossibility. For if such a thing should be transmuted, it would be when it is transmuted by some cause producing its transmutation, i.e., by its potency to transmutation. This potency, if it had existed before, would have made it possible for that thing to be other than it was, which thing, however, was assumed to be incapable of being otherwise. But if it previously lacked this potency to be otherwise, and later has it, that itself would be a transmutation of that thing. Consequently, even before it had the potency to be changed, it was able to be changed, namely, by receiving the power to be changed. Ex his autem sic argumentatur ad propositum. Si enim mundus constitutus est ex quibusdam rebus, quae priusquam mundus fieret aliter se habebant; si ita sit quod illa ex quibus constitutus est mundus, semper sic se haberent sicut prius se habebant, et impossibile sit aliter ea se habere, non fieret mundus ex eis. Si ergo factus est mundus ex eis, necesse est quod illa ex quibus factus est mundus, sint possibilia aliter se habere, et quod non semper eodem modo se habeant. Unde sequitur quod etiam constantia, idest postquam fuerint adunata ad constitutionem mundi, iterum possunt dissolvi; et quando erant dissoluta, prius fuerunt composita; et quod infinities vicissim haec sic se habebant, aut possibile erat sic se habere. Et si hoc est verum, sequitur quod mundus non sit incorruptibilis, neque unquam erit incorruptibilis, si ea ex quibus constat mundus aliter se habebant, neque etiam si possibile erat quod aliter se haberent: quia ex utroque sequitur quod etiam nunc possibile sit ea aliter se habere. From this he argues thus to his proposition; If the world was made from certain things which, before the world was made, were otherwise constituted, then if it is true that those things from which the world was formed were never otherwise than they always were, and could never be otherwise, the world could not have been formed from them. But if the world was formed from them, then, necessarily, those things from which it was formed could be otherwise and do not remain always the same. Hence it follows that even as constituents, i.e., after being united to form the world, they can be separated again; and, when dispersed, they have been previously united, and they alternated thus infinitely, or could have. And if this is true, it follows that the world is not imperishable, nor ever will be imperishable, if the things of which the world consists were at one time otherwise, or even could have been: for in either case it follows that even now it is possible that they be otherwise. Lectio 23 Lecture 23 Excluditur primo excusatio quorundam platonicorum deinde improbantur aliae duae opiniones aliae duae opiniones positae in praecendti lectione A Platonic evasion rejected. Two remaining opinions disproved Auxilium autem quod quidam conantur ferre sibi ipsis dicentium incorruptibilem quidem esse, factum autem, non est verum. Similiter enim dicunt his qui descriptiones scribunt, et seipsos dixisse de generatione; non tanquam generato aliquando, sed doctrinae gratia, tanquam magis instruentes, velut descriptionem genitum aspicientes. 167 Some of those who hold that the world, though indestructible, was yet generated, try to support their case by a parallel which is illusory. They say that in their statements about its generation they are doing what geometricians do when they construct their figures, not implying that the universe really had a beginning, but for didactic reasons facilitating understanding by exhibiting the object, like the figure, as in course of formation. Hoc autem est, quemadmodum dicimus, non idem. In factione quidem enim descriptionum, positis omnibus esse simul, idem accidit: in demonstrationibus autem horum non idem, sed impossibile: quae enim accipiuntur prius et posterius, subcontraria sunt. Ex inordinatis quidem enim ordinata facta esse dicunt: simul autem idem inordinatum esse et ordinatum impossibile, sed necesse generationem esse separantem, et tempus: in descriptionibus autem nihil tempore segregatum est. Quod quidem igitur impossibile ipsum sempiternum esse et factum esse, manifestum. 168 The two cases, as we said, are not parallel; for, in the construction of the figure, when the various steps are completed the required figure forthwith results; but in these other demonstrations what results is not that which was required. Indeed it cannot be so; for antecedent and consequent, as assumed, are in contradiction. The ordered, it is said, arose out of the unordered; and the same thing cannot be at the same time both ordered and unordered; there must be a process and a lapse of time separating the two states. In the figure, on the other hand, there is no temporal separation. It is clear then that the universe cannot be at once eternal and generated. Vicissim autem constare et dissolvi, nihil aliud facere est quam adstruere ipsum sempiternum quidem, sed transmutantem formam; quemadmodum si quis ex puero virum factum, et ex viro puerum, quandoque eum corrumpi, quandoque esse putet. Palam enim quod et ad invicem convenientibus elementis, non contingens ordo fit et constitutio, sed eadem, aliterque et secundum eos qui dixerunt hunc sermonem, qui dispositionis utriusque causant contrarium. Itaque, si totum corpus continuum ens, quandoque quidem sic, quandoque autem illo modo disponitur et aptatur; totius autem consistentia mundus et caelum; non utique mundus generabitur et corrumpetur, sed dispositiones ipsius. 169 To say that the universe alternately combines and dissolves is no more paradoxical than to make it eternal but varying in shape. It is as if one were to think that there was now destruction and now existence when from a child a man is generated, and from a man a child. For it is clear that when the elements come together the result is not a chance system and combination, but the very same as before—especially on the view of those who hold this theory, since they say that the contrary is the cause of each state. So that if the totality of body, which is a continuum, is now in this order or disposition and now in that, and if the combination of the whole is a world or heaven, then it will not be the world that comes into being and is destroyed, but only its dispositions. Totaliter autem factum corrumpi et non reflecti, existente quidem uno impossibile est: priusquam enim fieret, semper existebat quae ante ipsum consistentia; qua non facta, non possibile esse dicimus transmutari. Infinitis autem existentibus mundis, contingit magis. 170 If the world is believed to be one, it is impossible to suppose that it should be, as a whole, first generated and then destroyed, never to reappear; since before it came into being there was always present the combination prior to it, and that, we hold, could never change if it was never generated. If, on the other hand, the worlds are infinite in number the view is more plausible. Sed tamen hoc utrum impossibile aut possibile, erit manifestum ex posterioribus. Sunt enim quidam, quibus contingere videtur et ingenitum aliquid ens corrumpi, et genitum incorruptibile perdurare, sicut in Timaeo: ibi enim ait caelum factum esse quidem non solum, sed et fore de cetero sempiterno tempore. Ad quos naturaliter quidem de caelo solum dictum est: universaliter autem de omni speculantibus erit et de hoc manifestum. 171 But whether this is, or is not, impossible will be clear from what follows. For there are some who think it possible both for the ungenerated to be destroyed and for the generated to persist undestroyed. (This is held in the Timaeus, where Plato says that the heaven, though it was generated, will none the less exist to eternity.) So far as the heaven is concerned we have answered this view with arguments appropriate to the nature of the heaven: on the general question we shall attain clearness when we examine the matter universally. 231. Praemissis rationibus contra opinionem Platonis, hic philosophus excludit quandam excusationem praedictae opinionis, quam Xenocrates et alii Platonici afferebant. Et circa hoc duo facit: 231. After presenting the arguments against Plato, the Philosopher here rejects a certain excusing of the aforesaid opinion, which Xenocrates and other Platonists proposed. About this he does two things: primo proponit excusationem; first, he proposes the explanation; secundo excludit eam, ibi: hoc autem est, quemadmodum dicimus et cetera. secondly, he rejects it, at the two cases, as we said 232. Dicit ergo primo quod non est verum illud auxilium, idest illa excusatio, quam quidam Platonicorum, dicentium mundum esse incorruptibilem sed tamen factum vel genitum, conantur ferre sibi ipsis, ut non irrationabiliter posuisse videantur. Dicunt enim se dixisse de generatione mundi ad similitudinem eorum qui describunt figuras geometricas, qui primo describunt quasdam partes figurae, puta trianguli, et postea alias, non quasi prius fuerint huiusmodi partes antequam talis figura ex huiusmodi partibus constitueretur, sed ut magis explicite demonstrent ea quae ad figuram requiruntur. Et similiter dicunt Platonem dixisse mundum factum esse ex elementis, non tanquam aliquo tempore determinato mundus sit generatus, sed causa doctrinae; ut facilius instruerentur aliqui de natura mundi, dum prius demonstrantur eis partes mundi, et quid habeant huiusmodi partes ex seipsis, postea demonstratur eis compositio quam habent a causa mundi, quae Deus est. Et ita aspiciunt, idest considerant, mundum esse genitum, ad modum descriptionis qua utuntur geometrae in descriptione figurarum. He says, therefore, first [167] that there is no truth in that help, i.e., that excusing, by which some Platonists seek to justify their assertion—that the world is imperishable, but yet made or generated—and make it appear not unreasonable. For they say that their description of the world's generation was after the manner of those who describe geometric figures by first drawing certain parts of the figure, e.g., of a triangle, and later other parts, not implying that these parts existed before the figure was formed of them, but doing this in order to demonstrate more explicitly what things are required for the figure. They say that Plato in like manner declared that the world was made from elements, not as though the world was generated at some definite time, but for the purpose of presenting his doctrine, so that, namely, his hearers would be more easily instructed about the nature of the world, if first the parts of the world were demonstrated to them and what these parts possessed of themselves, and later the composition they had from the cause of the world, which is God. Consequently they look on, i.e., consider, the world as generated in the manner of the description which geometers use in describing figures. 232. Deinde cum dicit: hoc autem est, quemadmodum dicimus etc., improbat quod dictum est. Et dicit quod non eodem modo se habet quod ipsi dicunt circa generationem mundi, et quod geometrae dicunt circa descriptiones figurarum, sicut manifestabitur per ea quae nunc dicemus. Quia in descriptionibus geometricalibus, idem accidit si omnes partes figurae simul accipiantur ut constituunt figuram, et si non accipiantur simul: quia quando non accipiuntur simul, nihil aliud dicitur de eis nisi quod sunt lineae vel anguli; et hoc etiam salvatur in eis quando accipiuntur omnia simul in figura constituta ex eis. Sed in demonstrationibus eorum qui ponunt generationem mundi, non idem accipitur cum sunt simul et cum non sunt simul; sed impossibile est quod idem ex utraque parte accipiatur, sicut impossibile est opposita esse simul; illa enim quae accipiuntur prius, scilicet ante constitutionem mundi, et posterius, scilicet mundo iam constituto, sunt subcontraria, idest habent quandam adiunctam et latentem contrarietatem. Dicunt enim quod ex elementis inordinatis facta sunt ordinata, Deo scilicet reducente inordinationem elementorum ad ordinem, ut Plato in Timaeo dicit: geometrae autem non dicunt quod ex lineis divisis componatur triangulus, sed simpliciter quod ex lineis. Et esset simile si isti solum dicerent quod mundus sit ex elementis: sed dicunt quod mundus ordinatus sit ex elementis inordinatis. Non est autem possibile quod aliquid sit simul ordinatum et inordinatum: sed necesse est dari aliquam generationem, per quam unum eorum ab altero separetur, ut scilicet ante generationem sit inordinatum, post generationem vero ordinatum; et per consequens necesse est dari aliquod tempus distinguens utrumque. Sed in descriptionibus figurarum non requiritur aliqua distinctio temporis: non enim oportet quod linea et triangulus tempore distinguantur, sicut ordinatum et inordinatum. 232. Then, at at the two cases, as we said 168], he disproves this explanation. And he says that the way the generation of the world is described by them is not in the same manner as the descriptions of figures made by geometers, as will be clear from what we shall now say. For in geometric descriptions the same thing happens whether all the parts are considered together as constituting the figure, or whether they are not taken together. When they are taken separately, no more is said about them than that they are lines or angles, which is also true of them when they are taken all together in the figure made out of them. But in the demonstrations presented by those who posit the generation of the world, the same thing is not taken when the parts are considered together and when they are not. Rather, it is impossible that the same be taken in both instances, just as it is impossible for opposites to be together—for the things taken first, i.e., before the establishing of the world, and those taken later, i.e., after the world is now established, are subcontraries, i.e., have a certain conjoined and latent contrariety. For they say that out of unordered elements, ordered things were made, God reducing the disorder among the elements to order, as Plato says in the Timaeus. But geometers do not say that a triangle is composed out of separated lines but out of lines. The situation would be similar if those in question solely said that the world results from elements, but what they say is that the orderly world came about from disordered elements. Now it is not possible for something to be at once ordered and disordered, but a process of generation is required through which one is separated from the other, so that before generation it is disordered, and after generation ordered. Consequently it is necessary to suppose some time distinguishing the two. But no such distinction of time is required in the descriptions of figures—for it is not necessary that a line and a triangle be distinguished in the order of time as ordered and disordered are. 233. Volunt autem quidam adhuc excusare Platonem, quasi non posuerit quod inordinatio prius tempore fuerit in elementis mundi, et postea aliquo tempore incoeperint ordinari; sed quia inordinatio semper quantum ad aliquid adiuncta est elementis mundi, licet quantum ad aliquid ordinentur; sicut etiam ipse Aristoteles ponit quod materiae semper adiungitur privatio, quamvis et semper sit secundum aliquid formata. Potest etiam intelligi Platonem dedisse intelligere quid elementa ex se haberent, si non essent ordinata a Deo; non quod prius tempore fuerint inordinata. Sed quidquid Plato intellexerit, Aristoteles, sicut dictum est, obiiciebat contra id quod verba Platonis exprimunt. 233. Still others desire to excuse Plato on the ground that he did not teach that there was a prior disorder in the elements which subsequently, at a later time, began to be ordered, but rather disorder is always present under some aspect in the elements of the world, although under another aspect there is order, as Aristotle himself posits that matter always has a concomitant privation, although it is always in some respect under form. It is also possible to interpret Plato as stressing what the elements would be of themselves if they had not been put in order by God, not that there was ever a time in which they existed disordered. But whatever Plato may have understood about the matter, Aristotle, as has been said, objected against what Plato's words express. Concludit ergo ex praemissis quod impossibile sit mundum factum esse per generationem, et tamen eum in sempiternum durare. He concludes, therefore, from the foregoing that it is impossible for the world to have been generated and yet able to go on forever. 234. Deinde cum dicit: vicissim autem etc., prosequitur opinionem Empedoclis, quam tertio posuerat. Et dicit quod illi qui dicunt mundum vicissim componi et dissolvi, nihil aliud faciunt quam quod adstruunt mundum esse sempiternum secundum substantiam, sed se transmutare secundum formam, sive secundum eius dispositionem; sicut si aliquis videns aliquem ex puero factum virum, si ponatur quod videat vicissim eundem ex viro factum puerum, putet eum quandoque fieri et quandoque corrumpi. Et quod secundum hanc opinionem Empedoclis ponatur ipsa substantia mundi sempiterna, manifestat per hoc quod post separationem elementorum per litem, quando iterum convenient elementa, non fiet qualiscumque ordo mundi et qualiscumque eius constitutio, sed eadem quae nunc est. Et hoc manifestum est et aliter, scilicet per rationem, quia ab eadem causa, scilicet amicitia, congregabuntur tunc elementa, ex qua et prius congregata sunt, et sic eadem constitutio mundi sequetur: sed etiam hoc manifestum est secundum eos qui hanc positionem ponunt, qui asserunt contrarietatem litis et amicitiae, quas ponunt causam contrariae dispositionis in elementis, ut scilicet quandoque sint coniuncta, quandoque separata. Unde concludit quod, si totum corpus mundi, continuum existens, idest coniunctum, quandoque disponatur et aptetur uno modo, quandoque alio modo; cum ipsa consistentia sive substantia omnium corporum vocetur mundus sive caelum, sequitur quod mundus non generetur et corrumpatur, sed solum dispositiones ipsius. 234. Then, at to say that the universe alternately [169] he takes up the opinion of Empedocles which is the third one mentioned. And he says that those who maintain that the world alternates between being assembled and dissolved do nothing more than assert the substantial permanence of the world but its transmutability with respect to its form or its arrangement. It is as though someone seeing a boy becoming a man, if it should be posited that he sees the same person becoming from a man a boy again, should reckon this person as [alternately] at one time coming into existence and at one time ceasing to be. That the opinion of Empedocles is tantamount to positing the substance of the world as eternal, he manifests by the fact that after the elements shall have been separated by strife and later reassembled, it is not just any order and any new arrangement that will ensue but the very same one that now exists. And this is made clear in another way, i.e., by reason, because the very same cause, namely, friendship, will assemble the elements which previously assembled them; consequently, the same arrangement of the world will result. And this is plain also from the teachings of those who hold this position and assert that friendship and strife are contrary and the causes of a contrary disposition in the elements, so that at one time they are assembled and at another separated. Hence he concludes that if the entire body of the world, while remaining continuous, i.e., conjoined, is now disposed and arranged in one way and later in another way, then, since it is the combination, or substance, of all bodies that is called the world or heaven, it follows that the world is not generated and destroyed but only its arrangements are. 235. Deinde cum dicit: totaliter autem factum etc., prosequitur opinionem Democriti, quam supra secundo posuerat. 235. Then, at if the world is believed to be one [170], he takes Democritus' opinion, which was the second one mentioned. Et primo dicit qualiter se habeat ista opinio; First he explains this opinion; secundo ostendit quid circa hanc postmodum erit manifestum, ibi: sed tamen et cetera. secondly, he shows what will later be clear about it, at but whether 236. Dicit ergo primo quod, si aliquis ponat quod mundus sit factus, et totaliter corrumpatur absque regressu, ita scilicet quod nunquam iterum fiat, hoc quidem est impossibile, si ponatur unus tantum mundus. Et hoc ideo, quia si sit unus mundus qui quandoque est factus, cum non sit factus ex nihilo, priusquam fieret existebat substantia quae erat ante eum. Aut ergo ponemus quod illa substantia quae praeerat mundo, poterat subiici generationi, aut non. Et si quidem non poterat generationi subiici, non poterat ex ea fieri mundus: et hoc est quod dicit, qua non facta, vel non genita, idest qua non subiecta generationi, impossibile esse dicimus transmutari, idest non possibile esse quod transmutetur, ad hoc ut ex ea fiat mundus. Si vero in sua natura habebat quod posset transmutari, ad hoc quod fieret ex ea mundus, etiam post corruptionem mundi poterit transmutari, ut ex ea iterum fiat mundus. He says therefore first [170] that if someone should maintain that the world was made, and entirely ceases to be without returning, in such a way, namely, that it will never be restored again, such a thing is impossible, if there is but one world. The reason is that if there is but one world, made at some time, then, since it was not made from nothing, there was, previous to its being made, a substance which existed before it. Either we hold that that substance which pre-existed before the world could have been subject to generation, or that it could not. If not, then the world could not have been made from it. And this is what he says, namely, that if it was not made, or not generated, i.e., not subject to generation, we say it to be impossible of transmutation, i.e., not able to be transmuted in order for the world to be made out of it. But if it possessed in its nature the power to be transmuted, so that the world could be made from it, then also after the destruction of the world it could be transmuted and a world made again from it. Sed si aliquis ponat infinitos mundos, ita scilicet quod ex quibusdam atomis uno modo compositis fiat hic mundus, et ex eisdem vel aliis alio modo compositis fiat alius mundus, et hoc in infinitum; magis poterit sustineri quod dictum est, scilicet quod mundus semel corruptus nunquam iterum generetur; quia ex quo possibile est esse alios mundos, ex illis atomis poterit alius mundus constitui. Sed si non posset esse mundus nisi unus, sequeretur inconveniens: quia materia in quam mundus resolveretur, esset adhuc in potentia ut ex ea fieret mundus; unde si non posset esse alius mundus, oporteret quod idem ipse iterum fieret. But if someone posits infinite worlds, in the sense that from atoms arranged in one way this world comes to be, and from the same or other atoms differently arranged another world comes to be, and so on ad infinitum, such a position would be a better foundation for what was said, namely, that the world once destroyed is never again regenerated, because from the assumption that other worlds are possible, another world could be arranged from those atoms. However, if there could be but one world, something incompatible with the theory follows: the matter into which the world dissolved would still be in potency to have a world made from it. Hence if a different world were impossible, the very same one would have to be produced again. 236. Deinde cum dicit: sed tamen etc., ostendit quid restet dicendum: et dicit quod ex posterioribus erit manifestum utrum hoc sit possibile vel impossibile. Et si quidem ly hoc referatur ad immediate dictum de opinione ponentium infinitos mundos, non est intelligendum quod posteriora hic nominet ea quae immediate sequuntur, in quibus nulla de hoc fit mentio; sed intelliguntur posteriora ea quae dicentur de opinione Democriti in tertio huius, et in I De generatione. Si vero ly hoc referatur ad totum praecedens, ubi actum est de opinione ponentium mundum esse genitum, per posteriora intelliguntur immediate sequentia. Et ad hoc concordat quod immediate subditur. Sunt enim quidam, quibus videtur esse contingens quod aliquid quod nunquam fuit generatum, quandoque corrumpatur, et quod aliquid de novo genitum, incorruptibile perduret; sicut in Timaeo dicit Plato non solum quod caelum sit factum de novo, sed etiam quod duret de cetero sempiterno tempore; et sic ponit utrumque dictorum, scilicet quod materia inordinata, quae nunquam incoepit esse inordinata, quandoque esse desinat; et quod mundus incipiat, et nunquam desinat. Et contra istos sic ponentes mundum generari, supra circa principium huius libri naturalibus rationibus processum est solum quantum ad caelum, quod probavit esse ingenitum et incorruptibile, tanquam non habens contrarium: sed nunc hoc manifestabitur universali consideratione de omnibus entibus. 236. Then at but whether [171] he shows what remains to be said, and says that from what will follow, it will be clear whether this is possible or impossible. And if this refers to what was just said of the opinion about infinite worlds, the phrase what will follow refers, not to what follows immediately, in which nothing is said about this opinion, but to what will be said about the opinion of Democritus in On the Heavens III and in On Generation I. But if this refers to the whole preceding section, where there is treated the opinion of those who posit that the world was generated, then the phrase what will follow refers to what immediately follows. And this is confirmed by what he at once adds. For there are some who conceive it possible for something which as never generated to perish at some time, and for something newly generated to remain incorruptible, as Plato says in the Timaeus that the heaven was produced in being, but will nevertheless endure for eternity. Thus he posits both statements: that disarranged matter, which never became disarranged, at some time ceases to be, and that the world began, and never ceases to be. Against those who thus posit that the world began through generation, Aristotle argued above near the beginning of this book with natural reasons solely to the effect that the heaven was proved ungenerated and indestructible, on the ground that it has no contrary. But now this will be shown by a universal consideration of all beings. Lectio 24 Lecture 24 Varii modi quibus aliqua dicuntur generabilia et ingenerabilia, corruptibilia et incorruptibilia Various meanings of "generable" and "ungenerable," "corruptible" and "incorruptible"